NOTE: This entry now includes a recent update at the end (10/26/07)!
I have been trying out this website called Sonicbids for about six months now, and after a lengthy evaluation, I have decided that it sucks, just like all the rest of the websites directed at musicians. I know this is a generalization, and there may be one awesome musician website out there that I don’t know about, but you know.. I don’t know about it.
See, when an artist wants to play at a particular venue, they send what’s called a press kit. A press kit contains a cd of your music, maybe a video, a bio, a photo of you and your band, press clippings… stuff like that. Promoters and talent buyers look at these promotional materials to try to decide if they want to book you or not. They’re a necessary tool.
These kits cost money to send out, and most people seem to think it’s a good idea to send a shitload of these out to every club in the world in hopes of getting booked everywhere. If you’ve ever been in a talent buyer’s office, you’ll immediately see the heaping pile of these forlorn packets from dreamy musicians heaped somewhere. Probably near a trash can.
This is similar to walking down the street and asking every girl you see if she will have sex with you. Maybe one in a thousand will say yes. Maybe one in a hundred. No matter what, though, you’re going to have to ask a LOT of chicks, and if it costs you a couple of bucks a pop to ask each girl (as it does to send a press kit), you’re going to be spending a lot of money.
So, where Sonicbids comes in is they have a system for you to set up an electronic press kit, or EPK, on their website. Then all you have to do is send a link to your EPK to the promoter or talent buyer, and they’ll be saved having to toss your disc and photo and shiny folder away, and you’ll be saved your couple bucks postage and whatnot.
It seems like a great idea, and it’s a pretty easy sell, mostly because people don’t want to sell themselves the old fashioned way, which is to make contacts and shake hands and so forth. They’d much prefer to email 100 promoters a link to an EPK and hope they all bite.
Well, chances are they’re not going to. I admit an EPK like this is a good idea for a regional or national level act who already has interest in them, so they can send the link to clubs who already know who they are instead of a hard press kit, but for us wee indie folks it’s not worth it. It is my impression that the majority of Sonicbids userbase is comprised of small indie people like me who cannot benefit from their services.
Additionally, Sonicbids works out deals with festivals and clubs to offer you what seems like an exclusive line on getting booked! Hey, neat! If I join Sonicbids I can get on all these awesome festivals and get entered into all these contests and shit! This is true, but each one has an entry fee between 5 and 30 dollars. So, in addition to the money you pay Sonicbids just for the account, you take a $5 or $25 hit to submit. Ouch! And since there are fourteen million users on Sonicbids and they’re all paying that money and submitting their EPK just like you are, the competition is enormous, and there are usually only one or two slots on a festival reserved for Sonicbids artists.
I had the opportunity to hear observe the general mutterings surrounding one artist who won a slot on a music festival aboard a cruise ship and it was not positive. They were regarded as undeserving by the other musicians and the crew. This may not always be the case. I can only speak from this one experience.
I have submitted to probably twenty different festivals [In truth, 8 as pointed out by Amanda at Sonicbids -jim] and contests and I haven’t gotten a single one. Not one. The only one I came sort of close to getting anywhere with was because I knew people at the company running the contest, and I ended up not winning because the bands who won all cheated their asses off, as I heard from an unnamed source. It really sucked because I was doing great and winning for most of the contest, but the cheaters took over, and it could have been easily prevented. Sonicbids allowed the cheating, however.
So basically, if you are a small indie artist and you are trying to build your touring, do it the old fashioned way. Get in a good room in your home town and play it every six weeks and promote your ass off. When you’re packing that room, then branch out to some neighboring towns and repeat. Build concentric circles. Put asses in seats. Build a network of contacts. There really is no other way.
Later on down the road you may be able to save some money by sending Sonicbids EPKs to venues and promoters with whom you already have some relationship. I don’t know, honestly. I’ll let you know if I like it any better when I get there. Don’t even think about using the Promoter Drop Box feature, though.
Here’s the letter I sent their support folks:
To whom it may concern:
Guys, I just don’t think Sonicbids is for me. Maybe if I type out my worries about it to you you can point out where I’m going wrong with your system and put me on the right track again. Here are the prioblems I have:
1) There are too many submitters.
Because Sonicbids is so easy to use, lots and lots of people are on it and they all submit to the same festivals you do. That means you’re basically awash in a myriad sea of submissions. You’re probably even less distinct as a submitter when you blindly send an EPK than you are mailing in a regular old-fashioned press kit.2) It costs too much and provides nothing.
I guess Sonicbids saves you money if you just email your link out to people, but for the most part, I use it to submit to festivals and contests and so forth, and these cost $5 to $20 per submission. In six months of submitting my butt off I have gotten zero to show for it.3) You allow cheating.
The only thing I had a chance of winning I got into because I had a contact at the promoter, and I didn’t win that one because all the other contestants cheated on your contest and you allowed it. That sucked. I promoted my ass off the old fashioned way. Also, the contest polling software didn’t work on the most popular browser for macs (Safari). I know most people use PC’s but most music people use macs!4) The spam.
Guys, knock it off with the emails please! In 6 months I have gotten 72 emails from you. Come on! That’s three per week! Some of these are thank yous for submitting and receipts, but most are not. The vast majority are not.I have put in a lengthy evaluation of your service, and my conclusion is that it’s worth it for regional to national level acts who send out a lot of press kits, but the smaller indie artists like me are getting kind of preyed upon.
I will be telling my friends about my experience with you and warning them not to use you until they get to a point of moderate success with a touring band, and never ever to use the promoter drop box.
Is there any way I can just put my account on hold until I need it later? I may want to use it again when I get to the level I’m talking about, so it’d be great if it could just go into deep freeze or whatever until I get there, but right now I don’t need it and it’s sucking up resources.
Thanks for reading,
Jim Hodgsonhttp://www.jimhodgson.com
I got a response a few days later, but am just now getting around to including it, thanks to Benjy from Sonicbids posting a comment here. Here’s what Amanda, the Sonicbids rep replied with:
Hi Jim,
Thank you for your email and for expressing your concerns and feedback about Sonicbids. I am happy to offer some suggestions regarding your feedback and help you to better understand your account and EPK and how to use it more effectively.
In your first feedback, you mentioned that sending a physical press kit will actually make you more noticed and stand out more and I have to respectfully disagree with that. Sending out a physical press kit has much more risks than sending out an EPK. The EPK provides a way to send out your press kit in a more professional, easier, and effective way. I have heard of artists who submitted their EPK to a promoter who needed a last minute band and they got it because their press kit got their before all those who mailed them in and it was easier for the promoter to review it.
One of the best features of submitting an EPK is the security you get that you definitely do not receive with a physical press kit submission. Promoters are contractually obligated to review every Sonicbids submission that they receive. This insures that your submission will be reviewed and not just thrown in the trash before it is even seen (promoter are not guaranteed to review your physical press kit, provided they did receive it and it was not lost in the mail). The physical press kit is also less organized than the EPK, as the promoter can lose pieces of the physical press kit but can’t with the EPK.
Our Promoter Relations team is in constant correspondence with promoters, assisting them with running their opportunities effectively and efficiently. If you ever have any questions or concerns regarding an opportunity, it is always best to try contacting the promoter directly, but you can also let us know, and our Promoter Relations team may be able to expedite the correspondence.
In your second feedback, you mentioned that the submission fees were too high. In some cases, you may find an opportunity that has a submission fee higher than you planned to pay. Please keep in mind that these submission fees are set by the promoter to be equal to or less than the cost of sending out the physical press kit. If a festival has a submission fee of $20, this submission fee usually still applies to those submitting physical press kits, only those submitting physical press kits also have to factor in the costs of supplies for creating the physical press kit and postage for mailing it out. We also encourage that promoters use the submission fees they receive and apply it to their event or for compensation to selected artists.
The submissions fees and the subscription fees are two separate entities. Your subscription allows you to build, edit, and email your EPK as much as you want whenever you want, saving money and time over physical press kit costs like CD duplication, supplies, and postage. The submission fees are set by the promoters themselves, and they are generally equal to or less than the cost of sending out a physical press kit.
You mentioned that the EPK can save you money using the “Email My EPK Out Now” tool and you’re absolutely right that this is a very valuable feature available only to active Sonicbids members that can save you money. Don’t overlook this tool as this is a way to send your EPK for no additional cost to anyone with an email address. If you’re spending time or money on sending out physical press kits to promoters and booking agents, this tool can be a huge value for you.
I am not sure exactly what cheating you were referring to in your feedback, but if you can please provide more specific information regarding this, I am happy to clear up any confusion you may have or look further into any opportunity that you have questions about.
Remember, it is always best to build a relationship with the promoters you connect with through Sonicbids and always best to contact a promoter directly before submitting to an opportunity as it will help you to address all your questions and concerns and help you determine if this opportunity is the right one for you to submit to.
I noticed that you have only submitted to 8 opportunities that you say you have come out with nothing to show for it. Remember, there are hundreds of other opportunities you can submit to in the “Promoter Drop Box,” and you can proactively search for opportunities using the “advanced search” tool to narrow your search by location, date, and genre. The “Promoter Drop Box” is a resource for our members to reach promoters with specific opportunities, but there is no obligation to use it. Not every opportunity is for everyone, and you are encouraged to contact the promoter directly to ask any questions before making a submission. In most cases, contact info can be found on the opportunity’s website.
Again don’t overlook the “Email My EPK” tool, “Community Forum,” and “Artist Search” tools as these are great ways of connecting with other artists, managers, promoters, and bookers.
With the emails, as a member, you have full control over what emails you receive from Sonicbids. We want to get appropriate announcements out to our members, but we don’t want to inundate them. You can select to receive or not receive messages by logging in to your account, clicking “edit profile”, and selecting the settings you prefer under the area labeled “options”.
If you are still interested in canceling your account, here’s how:
1) Log into your account with your username and password. (If you have a multi-user account, please click on the artist account you’d like to cancel.)
2) Select “Subscription Information.”
3) Click where it asks if you’d like to cancel.***If you’d also like to remove your email address from our distribution lists, you’ll need to take these additional steps***
4) Go to the “Edit Profile” section of your account
5) Un-check any appropriate option boxes and make sure to save changes.Your account is only accessible by you. Complete that cancellation page and you’ll be all set. Remember — you’ll still be able to send out your EPK through the end of the subscription term you’ve already signed up for, so even if you’re performing with a different band or under a different name, you can just update your EPK to reflect the new information. No need to cancel or start a new account.
If you feel that there is something we could do to improve your Sonicbids experience and keep you as a member, please let us know. We always welcome and learn from feedback from our members.
Hope that helps. Let us know if you have any further questions. If you need a quick answer to your question, check out the “Support Center” of your account for access to the FAQ and Quick Tip sections.
Best Regards,
Amanda===============================
Have a question? Get Answers here: http://www.sonicbids.com/epkfaq
Not a member yet? Take a tour: http://www.sonicbids.com/tour
===============================Musicians. Promoters. ONE Way To Connect.
http://www.sonicbids.com
Amanda J. Czaja
Artist Relations Representative
Sonicbids
580 Harrison Avenue, 4th Floor
Boston, MA 02118
Tel: 617-275-7247
Fax: 617-275-7223
support@sonicbids.com
I thanked her for her message and left it at that. They seem like nice people, really, and it’s clear that they care what people think of them, but I still don’t think Sonicbids is worth it to indie artists at all unless they’re at the level where sending out press kits is taking a large bite out of their pockets. I’m talking regional to national touring level.
—UPDATE 10/26/07—-
This is by far the most popular page on my site, so it appears that this has had some impact, and for that I am grateful. I have now let my sonicbids account lapse.
In the intervening months since I wrote this, I am glad to say that my relationships with promoters and club owners has grown markedly. I always bring up this subject with people like that to pick their brains. Almost to a man, they say they check MySpace instead. It’s got everything your Sonicbids page has, for free (even with video), and it shows them how good you are at pimping yourself out because it’s got the number if friends you have.
I don’t mean to say that the number of friends you have on myspace is indicative of how big a draw you have at any given show, but if you have a lot it at least shows that a bunch of people have heard about you.
I attended the Atlantis music conference not long ago, and there were people from Sonicbids there, talking up their service to no end. You can’t fault them for this, it’s just good business, and as I’ve already said, they seem like nice people. The only thing was, Corey Smith’s publicist was on the panels too, and he blew up from myspace. As it happens, his drummer is a friend of mine, and Corey’s got a rabid, huge following.
I don’t know anyone who has blown up from Sonicbids. I’m sure the Sonicbids folks can think of a few, but I don’t know of any.
I’m also pissed because I submitted to Atlantis through Sonicbids and guess what! I was not selected. To be fair, the panels at Atlantis were really cool, and it was cheaper to get in by submitting through Sonicbids, so they did get me a deal there. It would have been nice to play alongside my buddies at our hometown festival, but hey, that’s how it works. I guess they felt they could do without my half dozen screaming fans.
Also, at the time I wrote this the Sonicbids folks suggested to me that I should spend some time on the Sonicbids forums meeting people and doing gig swaps and so forth. I had to concede that I had not tried that, and in due time I gave it a full swing.
It is, in my experience, a forum full of people all shouting at once about their band. What else could it be? This is the internet, after all. There may be someone out there who has had success with connecting with other bands on the Sonicbids forum and hooking up for shows and whatnot, but I would equate this to internet dating. Sure, you might meet the perfect person for you, but you’re also going to meet a lot of people who are unable or unwilling to meet people face to face.
Conclusion: Paying Sonicbids is no substitute for hard work, promotion, and networking in the real world. Save your money!
40 Comments
Myriad – great word! Good luck with all of this. Don’t they know who you are?? :)
Excellent assessment. I deteremined the same thing during their little introductory 30 day period that they offered to all SxSW bands back in 2005. Now I (and every other band in Austin) get their dumb little emails every day listing songwriting contests and lame clubs that usually don’t even exist anymore. Essentially, I thought it was the largest scale “Battle of Bands” I’ve ever seen: a huge group of nobodies and no ones all vying for a shot at overnight success.
and yes, the cost of the subscription plus the cost of submitting your EPK to promoters is drainging. I just decided to make a PDF and call it my EPK.
An absolutely wonderful story Jim. I love the fact that you are pointing out that the emperor (in this case Sonicbids) is wearing no cloths. I think your approach is still the best. Get bums in seats and the rest will follow. From one indie to another, good luck with the struggle to be heard in what is rapidly becoming a musical wilderness.
James
Hey folks, thanks for having this discussion. We received the message above from Jim on February 2nd. On February 4th, Amanda, one of our Artist Relations representatives, sent the response below. After receiving it, Jim wrote back to thank Amanda and to let her know how much he appreciated the response. Jim, if you get a chance, I encourage you to post an update regarding your experience with Sonicbids’ Customer Support.
Here’s the message Amanda sent:
Hi Jim,
Thank you for your email and for expressing your concerns and feedback about Sonicbids. I am happy to offer some suggestions regarding your feedback and help you to better understand your account and EPK and how to use it more effectively.
In your first feedback, you mentioned that sending a physical press kit will actually make you more noticed and stand out more and I have to respectfully disagree with that. Sending out a physical press kit has much more risks than sending out an EPK. The EPK provides a way to send out your press kit in a more professional, easier, and effective way. I have heard of artists who submitted their EPK to a promoter who needed a last minute band and they got it because their press kit got their before all those who mailed them in and it was easier for the promoter to review it.
One of the best features of submitting an EPK is the security you get that you definitely do not receive with a physical press kit submission. Promoters are contractually obligated to review every Sonicbids submission that they receive. This insures that your submission will be reviewed and not just thrown in the trash before it is even seen (promoter are not guaranteed to review your physical press kit, provided they did receive it and it was not lost in the mail). The physical press kit is also less organized than the EPK, as the promoter can lose pieces of the physical press kit but can’t with the EPK.
Our Promoter Relations team is in constant correspondence with promoters, assisting them with running their opportunities effectively and efficiently. If you ever have any questions or concerns regarding an opportunity, it is always best to try contacting the promoter directly, but you can also let us know, and our Promoter Relations team may be able to expedite the correspondence.
In your second feedback, you mentioned that the submission fees were too high. In some cases, you may find an opportunity that has a submission fee higher than you planned to pay. Please keep in mind that these submission fees are set by the promoter to be equal to or less than the cost of sending out the physical press kit. If a festival has a submission fee of $20, this submission fee usually still applies to those submitting physical press kits, only those submitting physical press kits also have to factor in the costs of supplies for creating the physical press kit and postage for mailing it out. We also encourage that promoters use the submission fees they receive and apply it to their event or for compensation to selected artists.
The submissions fees and the subscription fees are two separate entities. Your subscription allows you to build, edit, and email your EPK as much as you want whenever you want, saving money and time over physical press kit costs like CD duplication, supplies, and postage. The submission fees are set by the promoters themselves, and they are generally equal to or less than the cost of sending out a physical press kit.
You mentioned that the EPK can save you money using the “Email My EPK Out Now” tool and you’re absolutely right that this is a very valuable feature available only to active Sonicbids members that can save you money. Don’t overlook this tool as this is a way to send your EPK for no additional cost to anyone with an email address. If you’re spending time or money on sending out physical press kits to promoters and booking agents, this tool can be a huge value for you.
I am not sure exactly what cheating you were referring to in your feedback, but if you can please provide more specific information regarding this, I am happy to clear up any confusion you may have or look further into any opportunity that you have questions about.
Remember, it is always best to build a relationship with the promoters you connect with through Sonicbids and always best to contact a promoter directly before submitting to an opportunity as it will help you to address all your questions and concerns and help you determine if this opportunity is the right one for you to submit to.
I noticed that you have only submitted to 8 opportunities that you say you have come out with nothing to show for it. Remember, there are hundreds of other opportunities you can submit to in the “Promoter Drop Box,” and you can proactively search for opportunities using the “advanced search” tool to narrow your search by location, date, and genre. The “Promoter Drop Box” is a resource for our members to reach promoters with specific opportunities, but there is no obligation to use it. Not every opportunity is for everyone, and you are encouraged to contact the promoter directly to ask any questions before making a submission. In most cases, contact info can be found on the opportunity’s website.
Again don’t overlook the “Email My EPK” tool, “Community Forum,” and “Artist Search” tools as these are great ways of connecting with other artists, managers, promoters, and bookers.
With the emails, as a member, you have full control over what emails you receive from Sonicbids. We want to get appropriate announcements out to our members, but we don’t want to inundate them. You can select to receive or not receive messages by logging in to your account, clicking “edit profile”, and selecting the settings you prefer under the area labeled “options”.
If you are still interested in canceling your account, here’s how:
1) Log into your account with your username and password. (If you have a multi-user account, please click on the artist account you’d like to cancel.)
2) Select “Subscription Information.”
3) Click where it asks if you’d like to cancel.
***If you’d also like to remove your email address from our distribution lists, you’ll need to take these additional steps***
4) Go to the “Edit Profile” section of your account
5) Un-check any appropriate option boxes and make sure to save changes.
Your account is only accessible by you. Complete that cancellation page and you’ll be all set. Remember — you’ll still be able to send out your EPK through the end of the subscription term you’ve already signed up for, so even if you’re performing with a different band or under a different name, you can just update your EPK to reflect the new information. No need to cancel or start a new account.
If you feel that there is something we could do to improve your Sonicbids experience and keep you as a member, please let us know. We always welcome and learn from feedback from our members.
Hope that helps. Let us know if you have any further questions. If you need a quick answer to your question, check out the “Support Center” of your account for access to the FAQ and Quick Tip sections.
Best Regards,
Amanda
===============================
Have a question? Get Answers here: http://www.sonicbids.com/epkfaq
Not a member yet? Take a tour: http://www.sonicbids.com/tour
===============================
Musicians. Promoters. ONE Way To Connect.
http://www.sonicbids.com
Amanda J. Czaja
Artist Relations Representative
Sonicbids
580 Harrison Avenue, 4th Floor
Boston, MA 02118
Tel: 617-275-7247
Fax: 617-275-7223
support@sonicbids.com
My words will be a little more choice. Sonicbids and the festivals they use are scamming us nobodies. Suddenly it costs $30 plus a subscription to have someone click over to a website and listen to your music for a minute. I’m gonna start a festival, that’s where the cash is. $20 a submission, couple hundred artists, maybe thousands, submitting… That’s some cash.
Bubba, I’ve been thinking that…what better way to fund a festival than have a nice long period of like 6 months where people can apply…even charging ten bucks for applications would net thousands of dollars.
I couldn’t agree with you more. I took my band off a while ago.
I used to have a bunch of accounts on Sonicbids but cancelled all of them for much of the same reasons. Sadly, for almost any contest and opportunity etc that I found online (not on a sonicbids page but just a regular website) and that seems to be promising, requires you to set up a sonicbids account if you want to enter. The contest or opportunity usually does not give you another option. I guess sonicbids played it well and monopolised much of it. I’m guessing that there has to be many unhappy people quitting daily on sonicbids but because of sonicbids viral marketing effect online, it would not matter if 10 people left sonicbids today, because 20 new ones would join tomorrow.
Thhis happens because a new contest will start up that requires you to set up an account with … guess who? I am going to predict however, that when people figure out that because of technology that they can make their own EPK look just as great without sonicbids, that they will leave and not have to pay some residual fee anymore just to have an EPK online. This will happen shortly I’m sure. What we would need to do as independents however to make this happen faster is to write every contest or opportunity that ONLY accepts sonicbids, and tell them to allow other types of submissions as well. If they get enough letters, I’m sure they’ll change, and people would not necessarily be driven to support sonicbids who in most cases has you by the … (rhymes with balls).
You’re 100% correct about Sonic Bids. They have a slightly cultish group of manic employees who have obviously been trained to defend their scheme. Myspace has more or less destroyed their business model.
What bothers me the most is the plethora of sites out there willing to take a musician’s buck.
I just released my second CD so I have spent countless hours recently assessing all of the opportunities we indies may or may not have on the Internet. One of the things I have been trying to do with this release is get it reviewed, so I saw that Sonicbids offers such “opportunities,” and I dutifully paid my $5 for the privilege of being seen. I just received a submission “update” that, yet again, my submission was not accepted.
Flipside – I’ve used myspace to build personal relationships (i.e., saying more to people than “thanks for the add, you rock”) and ended up playing to a packed room on my CD release, got airplay, got an article and photo in the newspaper, and sold a bunch of CDs.
My web site looks 10 times better than sonicbids. The audio and graphics quality is better, etc., etc.
My conclusion? BOYCOTT SONICBIDS. Build personal relationships with fans and venues. If there’s a venue or festival that books exclusively through Sonicbids, I think we should collectively ignore them.
It is time for indie musicians to rise up and stop everyone in the industry from making money on our music than ourselves. If we help someone make a profit, we deserve a share of that profit. As of now, I’m not going to give me hard-earned money away to line the pockets of Sonicbids’ and their clients.
For what it’s worth, in my experience, the following resources are indie friendly and deserve our business, and give tremendous value for our promotional dollars:
Bandzoogle.com
CDbaby.com
That’s my take. Now, I’m going over to Sonicbids to cancel my account.
Cheers,
-Dave
I happened to come across your page – and as both an executive producer and promoter –
I thought I would leave a comment.
I am NOT a fan of Sonicbids – nor do I / we use it
Without going into detail….
A media kit is something that directly represents you, your talent and individuality.
When an artist emails me a link to a “sonicbids†page – me, nor my staff, could be bothered to look at it ( this goes for myspace as well). We don’t want to screw around the internet looking at pixelated graphics and listening to low resolution music samples ( that half the time don’t work anyways). Most producers already spend 99% of their day on a computer with day to day activities….so why would we want to spend ANOTHER hour trying to find and read your page?
If an artist wants to have a chance to work with us – They better put effort into a FULL printed media kit – providing pictures, music samples and background info.
We want a full kit that demonstrates / reflects your talent and individually.
I’m not saying that you need to spend $200 per kit – but try and PAY ATTENTION TO THE DETAILS!!! We notice these things
Yes…Sending out a million Media Kits will waste a lot of money as the majority of them will get tossed in the garbage – but if you initiate contact somehow with a producer or promoter before providing a decent media kit, I can almost guarantee that they will at least look at it.
DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT!
You might think you are the next Justin T…. but there needs to be something to spark our interest in your initial contact or packaging to get our attention. There has to be SOMETHING that separates you from the crowd – as we are going to compare you to the other kits on our desk…..as well as the other artists already on our roster. Spend some serious time thinking about your marketing angle and image !
IMO – Get a decent graphic designer / Photographer involved to help make you a kit….. As much as we appreciate homemade kits – the more professional and presentable your initial image seems – the better chance we are going to want to try and work with it.
If you talk to a 50 million producers and still no one wants to pick you up – maybe you need to revamp your presentation, the media kit or simply reconsider being a music artist.?
Just my thoughts.
Thanx.
Dustin L
Executive Producer
XXX-Group of Companies
OnlyTheHardcoreSurvive.com
I think that Sonic Bids has been worth the cost of subscription for my band. However, we rarely (only once actually) use the “Promoter Drop Box” feature. Instead we use the “e-mail my EPK” feature. It’s been much cheaper than mailing physical press kits.
$5 per month is the less than 1/16 the cost that we once spent on mailing costs before.
As for MySpace, several of the promoters that we work with will view our band’s MySpace, but they still want a press kit. That’s just the way it is.
All in all, $5 per month is pretty cheap.
Interesting comments, have been reading many diferent forums about Sonicbids on the web…perhaps the most apparent thing is that I have not heard from any band who personally says they are happy being a member of Sonicsbid…
Sonicbids is nothing more than a glorified “Taxi” type service which gives artists the ability to bid on gigs, sort of like a lottery. The firm also employs roughly 30 of the most prima donna dotcom types you’ve ever seen!
I’m a full time working musician and first heard about Sonic Bids from a colleague. I just brushed it off until I listened to an interview with Ingrid Michelson asking about how she got her break. Her reply, “Sonic Bids baby!”
Needless to say, that piqued my intrest enough to google them. I decided to give them a try. I’ll keep everyone posted if you like. Thanks for this thread. It’s been very interesting!
http://www.Melany.US
hi,
i’m from switzerland, working with a latino, worldmusic style band. since we do fine gigging here in switzerland i mostly use sonicbids to promote the new cd that is available worldwide. sonicbids for me is the only way to get heard/seen outside switzerland. so far i made really good experiences. considering the selling of the cd i will be able to say more in a year.
there is definetly danger to get ripped off if you are not carefull, but that risk you run anyway, everywhere, unless you do nothing at all.
about that promoter comment saying he wants an expensive printed presskit: we have been doing over 300 gigs in five years, also a lot of private stuff. we worked also on festivals, clubs, etc. but never needed anything printed. i have never used a printed foto. out of 300 gigs it was requested 2 times. i could convince these 2 guys to settle digitally.
there are still some guys out there like this promoter but they are few. compare it to musicians who still don’t have a homepage.
to me it seems a fine way with sonicbids. it seems alright to me that people spending their time to review something get paid, as long as they do this carefully.
but great you put this topic up here. it is always helpful having someone looking at things critically. i’m sure sonicbids might pass on this site from time 2 time. this definitely will make them work even harder to get some positive feedback.
Wow this is all VERY interesting. I’ve been a Sonicbids member for I think 2-3 years now, but I must say that myspace has them beat hands down because a) it’s free and b) unlike Sonicbids, the soundbytes come up right away–a huge plus–plus you can put your video right there on the same page. Along with your upcoming gigs–one stop shopping. I myself was very quickly disillusioned with the submission process, especially once I did the math, I was pissed! It does at the very least border on a scam. So I will ride out my current subscription and that will be it, I think. As it is, I find that I am already putting the myspace link in emails more often than the sonicbids one.
And, for the record, cdbaby ROCKS! I’ve never had the slightest feeling that they are not worth every penny of the minimal cut they take, and they’ve never dropped the ball once in terms of resolving any questions I had. I don’t know how they do it with the money they make, but they are the best–a great promotional addition.
I tried Sonicbids for two festivals that required it to submit and then realized what a fool I’d been.
Sonicbids is basically gig “payola” – they’ve set themseleves up as a gatekeeper. And liike some otherfolks have said, why not have the musicians who don’t get in finance the ones who do!
Sonicbids is an immoral Ponzi scam, and they should be investigated for the legality of their business plan. They should definately be boycotted by musicians. The musical world does not need another set of gatekeeping rip-off artists.
Probably the people we should be talking to is the Massachsetts Attorney General.
http://www.mass.gov/?pageID=cagohomepage&L=1&L0=Home&sid=Cago
Interestingly enough March 2-8 is National Consumer Protection Week. I suggest that anyone who feels like I do, send their complaint to the Massachusets Attorney General.
If enough of us relate our experiences, they might actually look into their business practices.
I’ve been playing out since the early 80s. I’ve seen a fair number of rip-offs, but this one is reaching new heights. These guys should be investigated.
peanuts and gerbils for rent!
Sonicbids, SXSW and CMJ are all fucking with our heads and egos. They know musicians want status by playing in their festivals and want recognition. Guys, better stick to improving your craft and forget about the status of CMJ or SXSW, including sonicbids, they are nothing but a bunch of fucking B.U.L.L.S.H.I.T.S. and fucking us musicians in the A.S.S.E.S. whenever they can. Bunch of no good fer nothin’ ass lickers!
Sonicbids has not invented the faceless, emotionless, humanless gap that we call internet marketing, but they have certainly not done anything to help it with their model. This business model (once again, not invented by sonicbids, but perpetuated to a higher degree) has done one thing well. It’s made it even easier for bookers/promoters/event organizers to make themselves feel like they are gods, and try to make artists feel that they’ve been given an immaculate gift just to be acknowledged by them, let alone looked at for 3 seconds. There is a post above written by a self-described “executive producer” who displays this attitude very well with phrases like “If an artist wants to have a chance to work with us”. I’m personally a member of sonicbids only because I get a free account, due to an organization that I am a part of. And I only use it for things that relate directly to the organization that I’m a part of. If it weren’t for that, I’d have cancelled my account long ago.
Sonicbids… hmmmm. I first came into contact with them when a band I was managing decided to sign up. This band is now doing well, but not because of Sonicbids (which I do believe netted a zero response for all submissions the band made) but because the band has continued to tour, attend showcases (not Sonicbids exclusive ones,) network and play great music.
As a musician myself, I recently signed up with Sonicbids because of a conference I wanted to attend that only accepted submissions through the aforementioned.
What has become clear to me in my experience over the last year with Sonicbids is, as others have mentioned, the vast majority of musicians who are not accepted are paying the tiny minority of musicians that are accepted. Musicians subsidizing musician… and wait a second, we don’t even get to attend the show. Now that sucks!
I will most likely keep my Sonicbids account as I don’t mind paying $5 per month but I will vote against the continued extortion of musicians by only submitting to promoters that request a reasonable fee- ie. if it would cost me $7 to snail mail my press kit and a promoter is asking for $5, then I’m ahead. To those who require musicians to pay $10, $15, $30 to just submit…. well, er… no thanks.
Resistance is not futile.
cheers to all of you out there working hard to make the world a better place through your creativity.
jennifer
myspace.com/jenniferlouisetaylor
Jim, I agree with you.
I have been a part of Sonicbids because I got a discounted price to join from submitting songs to the American Songwriter Magazine. While I like the concept of the website, I searched for some clubs in my area of Michigan and was surprised to see what low quality, dump places were requiring one to pay five dollars to submit online to them. That was my first red flag.
What’s sad is how club are going to start making easy money by requiring people to submit using Sonicbids. Recently, Uncommon Grounds in Chicago required people to submit through Sonicbids to audition for their annual Jeff Buckley Tribute show. I’m thinking it not only makes there life easier, but they also make money! Thy don’t make money from our press kits. This is a sick concept if I’m right.
Jennifer Taylor said this: What has become clear to me in my experience over the last year with Sonicbids is, as others have mentioned, the vast majority of musicians who are not accepted are paying the tiny minority of musicians that are accepted. Musicians subsidizing musician…
This is exactly what is happening. I also have a unique second theory: The problem is it’s actually too cheap to join Sonicbids at $5 a month. Here’s why: Everyone joins and it becomes a waste of time!
Here’s a comparison: A service like Taxi costs a few hundred dollars to join and also has $10 submissions fees; however, this website–according to a studio owner I use (Real ii Reel.com)–said Taxi is legit (he know the president well who speaks at his music conferences in Detroit) but he also warned one must be very specific in their submissions. The pay offs are worth it. Now, a fee for submissions is used to keep things manageable; people would submit to anything. And if the service is quality, it needs to have a higher fee to only attract professionals who are treating music like a business and separate those simply going through the motions.
I’m going to quit using Sonicbids for this year. Nothing will replace dedicated, grass roots publicity, and sadly, all musicians must first realize their draw is what gives their credibility in the business sense, not only the quality of their music.
Mike Vial
I am also a full-time artist, and I’m not a Sonic Bids fan! –Especially because you don’t have to use this kind of service to be successful. It’s true that the artists who do their own networking and are very personal with not just their fans, but producers, promoters, and industry reps will do better than those that don’t.. So as the word of God says–A good reputation is better than the finest bottle of perfume. It’s good to be known as as an artist who is very hands on….Plus you learn so much more about every aspect of the business…It certainly comes in handy. Also, CD Baby has been one of the best things I’ve ever been involved in! They promote you like crazy, and on top of that, they make your music available through so many avenues…which not to mention–only used to be available for majorly signed artists in the past. It’s certainly worth the measley few cents you pay out per download. I have yet to hear of or see a better company than that for Indie Artists.
–Jme Medina
http://www.jmemedina.com
Thanks for your interesting article. I found it by doing a ‘Sonicbids sucks’ Google search. I wanted to sift around for feedback on it, and sure enough, I found it.
I had signed up for the free trial and once I saw how high the submission fees were, I IMMEDIATELY canceled. There is absolutely no way in hell I’m going to pay as much as $60 freakin’ dollars to submit to a listing when there are millions of members all fighting for the same scraps.
I kind of figured Sonicbids was dodgy. I’m on Taxi now and I’m much, much happier. The fees versus the service are much more reasonable and I see people getting better results with a lot less complaining.
Sonicbids is a total scam. Our band was stupid enough to fall into it to. It didn’t take us long to figure out that they keep accepting submission money for events that the promoter has already CLOSED, they have never fixed their tracking service because they don’t want you to know that the promoter you just paid $50 to never even viewed your kit, and they have NO customer service. You never hear back or maybe after four months.
We found a MUCH better service that doesn’t have the BS, doesn’t look like a cartoon, understands the struggling musician and works FOR us, and has customer service reps online up to 20 hours a day, seven days a week. Even on holidays!
http://www.powerpresskits.com
myPPK Power Press Kits. NO per-use fees, no pay-to-play. Graphic themes are great and you can make your own theme for cheap. We STRONGLY recommend everyone who has been scammed by soncibids check out Power Press Kits.
Sonic Bids is a scam. They should be charging the venues for access to bands EPK’s, not the other way around; but it’s so easy to make money from star struck artists. It’s just like the pay to play situation here in LA. The entire concept of an epk is to utilize technology to save $$, but instead you are spending hundreds more with sonic bids. I will never join them. Your $$ is better spent on a publicist, manager or promoter. I’m disgusted to see venues using accepting epk’s only from sonic bids.
Regarding Arnolds’ comment some time ago that most of the competitions found online increasingly seem to REQUIRE you to set up a sonicbids account in order to enter… this is exactly what made me suspicious of the whole thing, and then by extension, suspicious of the contests themselves. Is it a waste of time for a songwriter to enter a songwriting competition? I’m part of a songwriting team, not a band, and we just want to get our songs out to bands looking for great material, thought the competition route would be one way to get some stuff in front of people… But as I read through this thread, I do feel ever so slightly to majorly chumped. Maybe I’ll just send all you guys an MP3 instead….!
Interesting stuff….I just recently began my “free 30 day trial” and I, too, was surprised by the submission fees. I was directed to sonicbids by someone involved in booking Milwaukee Summerfest and the WI state fair. As I recall, he didn’t specifically say that they would only book through sonic bids, but he did say that it was the best way to apply for these types of events. After reading these posts, it would seem to me that the best way to approach these music buyers would be the “old school” method of 1) spend some time and research what events would suit you. Most events have their own web presence anyway. 2) a phone call before sending the link to your sonic bids EPK. 3)a followup call after a few days to remind them to look or get feedback if they already have.
I know that doesn’t seem like the 21st century way doing things, but remember, this is still a people business.
I still say that sonicbids has value as a place to send prospective buyers to avoid the hassle and expense of a physical press kit. But it doesn’t look like you’ll be able to get famous without “applying some shoe leather to the pavement” anytime soon.
Wonderful! Now I’m torn!
What to do? What to do?
If anyone is looking for an insiders take on Sonicbids please check out my blog at soundslikepenis.wordpress.com. Im a Sonicbids employee and I’m trying to keep my sanity.
Glad to read someone has the balls to talk about how bad this company is for musicians. Kudos to you.
I have no axe to grind about Sonicbids (pro or con) but I have been struck by the amazing coincidence of posts by certain people dissing them in favor of some other sites, appearing in multiple blog comment threads.
Under different names. With exactly the same message.
Yep, it has already been said. SONICBIDS is a complete scam for 99% of musicians. I personally know some bands with huge draws that tried sonicbids and got nothing. How do I know them? Cuz I manage them lol. Maybe I am a shit manager but in my country my bands have a great regional follow and on sonicbids “not selected” and no evidence of promoters viewing the EPKs at all.
Sonicbids is a bullshit scam. Tell a friend!
I agree with many of your points except “Sonicbids is easy to use”. It’s horribly difficult to use, with many page fetches timing out. Their class of service is abysmal by the standards of any paid service. Neither is there any meaningful regional support so one can limit the raw number of “opportunities” being examined.
there is one very important point regarding sonicbids that people here have missed: sonicbids takes 50% of all submission money. that is, you submit to one of the ahem, “opportunities” (contests with really bad odds), and say, the submission fee is, i dunno, 20 bucks… 10 of that goes to, yes, sonicbids. so not only are you paying sonicbids for your epk hosting fee, but you are also paying sonicbids every time you submit to anything.
it’s a wonderful business model, doncha think? sonicbids is raking in the cash… not off the back of the (all to often dodgy) promoters, but off the backs of desperated musicians.
these comments makes a lot of sense to me.
it always been so confusing to me that since when paying a promoter to listen to your stuff became a better way to get heard than playing your music as much as you can,handing free records to people as long as possible?.and since when finding good producers and promoters is easier through a website asking you ta pay them so they would have your stuff reviewed by promoters and producers which they claim they are the only ones have access to them.do you think good promoters and producers would ever close the door on them selves and have a Sonicbids at the gate,asking for money from artists to enter?if they are that good to have that nose that high in the air then they are already rich and wont need your 20 bucks dud!.and good producers and promoters don’t think a serious artists is someone who pays a fee to get heard,it is all the music and potential in it and you, as the performer.but when you see there are more than 1 million of bands alone in UK and the world is still a bad place to live,then it is so obvious that most of them can do better things than doing music and are just making and filling a row cause they can strum some string and let out some melody, a mix of what ever they have downloaded on bit torrent and make a food money and keep on living and we see that even that had became so hard cause these bogus peoples are becoming a big amassing crowd and good artists have to feel like shit looking at them on the same stage they are going to play some minute after.and WELL DONE SONICBIDS,CAUSE THEY FOUND OUT IF THERE WERE 1 MILLION TRUE ARTISTS OUT THERE, WORLD WOULD BE A DIFFERENT PLACE,BUT IT IS NOT,SO 90% Of THEM MOST BE STUPID,AND HELL WE CAN MAKE MONEY OF THAT,AND THEY SO DO!.And as the money matters to 90% of the music industry guys more than anything,and they see by pouring their honey in this amassing ball of fake instrument holders they can make a very easy money,and if by a chance a good artist came across,they will get that one and run of course,so i keep faith in being true than joining the dumb community,and seek happiness in a Sonicbids toilethole!.they promoted a band for SXSW from a Africa,and from middle eastes yes!.but where are those bands now?,i know them,they are in the amassing dumb ball!,wearing dumb suits and being a crap copy of a good band if they could stay in the usa.! i always keep reading story of bands which made it,and hell they always make it through the pubs they kept sharing love in rather than licking some fuck dumb A&R dumb so promising ass.if you got money,spend it with your own strategy or get a good trustworthy manager to help you.these websites are just to control the side effects of the music industry,which was in 70’sthe cool awsome peoples which would take their guitar and go out and play some songs 30 years ago and enjoy and come back and knew they are acting like the artist,and would never fake the true thing cause they were true humans!,and if they thought they can do good then they would and hell they would be right.looks like those are not human any more,they take the fist to the air and say “hell we can do it” and they go and fill the doors.wouldn’t you put a sonicbids gorilla at those doors if you were in?,could you hear the true artists among all those sounds?!!!my 2 cents.it all happened since every one thought they CAN do it,rather that they ARE it.
We’re all gonna be famous!
We didn’t go into this business to make money, it’s all for the love of music.
Back when I was CEO of a multinational corporation I used to say “don’t pay me — I’m just doing it because I love this business.” I didn’t pay any of my employees either we all just worked for the glory of it.
Then along came those other companies who were all like “we have families to feed” and I said “you guys don’t get it — you’ve all sold out,” but somehow they managed to keep their businesses afloat even though they were just in it for the money.
Couldn’t they all see that as a CEO the craft was the important thing?
The government was all up in my business like “you have to pay us taxes if you want to stay in business” and I explained to them “no way, dudes, we don’t pay to play.” It seems like I couldn’t even organize a hostile takeover without someone wanting to get paid for it.
It was crazy, everyone in the business wanted to get paid. All the time I was like “guys, can’t you see that there are more important things in business than financial success?”
So I’m still a struggling CEO, but I know that if I can just find the right gig then everything will work out. I’m putting a new company together and we’re all about the D.I.Y. we’re gonna freecycle our whole manufacturing facility.
In the meantime SonicBids keeps taking our money, I’m like “why is it everytime we give you some cash, you just take it — what’s your problem?” and then we give them some more money.
Why is it that in business every time you give some someone money they take it? Why can’t they be like “I’m sorry you really don’t have a snowball’s chance in hell of success with your current business model so we’re giving you this money back so you can use it to buy a clue”?
On top of it all people are always rejecting our anonymous submissions without any productive feedback. I’m like “hey, if I’m gonna take the time to submit something to you anonymously on the internet, the least you can do is go out of the way to send me a carefully thought out reply, after all, I thought we were friends!”
They just can’t recognize real talent when they see it.
Thieves thieves thieves thieves!
Go to Myspace.com or G2.fm for free press kits.
I have been a sonicbids member for several years now, while its true I have gotten a few gigs and radio airplay with the service, I have to agree that they are 90% a scam..they view musicians as someone to fund thier little capitalistic scheme and treat promoters (who in my opinion are opportunistic and greed-driven for using this Payola service…who the hell ever decided a talent of any kind should pay to simply audition is a crackpot at best).. I have had a 80% booking sucess when CALLING venues myself..and much lower ratio with using the Sonicbids “service”…you can simply see for yourself what a lot of artists are dealing with when reading the reviews of so-called promoters on their site..make no mistake they are raking in hundreds of thousands of dollars if not millions of dollars from people they have no intention of even listening to…Sonicbids was invented by a bunch of money grubbing lawyers in Boston..they RIP OFF MUSICIANS…and If I had no success with Sonicbids and also no success with booking my act tradionally, then I would readily admit that maybe it was my music that wasnt in demand…but like other rip off organizations like Tonos (which closed in 2002 without notice to their members and no refunds of any fees..thank Carole Baer Sager, Baby Face Edmunds for that scam), TAXI which asks for membership fees of 300 bucks a year PLUS 5 dollars a submission just to have flunkie “screeners” tell people that thier song isnt Broadcast Quality ( even though all mine were recorded in a top studio that even Willie Nelson records at )..and their “opportunity” listings dont ask for Broadcast quality many times…plus they refuse to respond to any emails…SO UNPROFESSIONAL..and other rip off companies…they are destroying many small artists abilities to tour or get ahead because they offer FRAUD instead of opportunities..there is no consumer advocate that can even verify if these companies are legitimate or not.. in my humble opinion: NOT
Dont waste your money on Sharks.. they prey on the unsuspecting and become unprofessional when questioned.. also steer clear of BMI, they routinely steal songs from up and coming songwriters..I have known several that have had to file lawsuits against this Performing Rights Organization just to get out of their contract..BMI executives are rude and do nothing for anyone except already established artists.